I recall reading a biography of Sec. Kissinger's white house years that indicated that part of the problem for the U.S. was that the CIA covert operations in Vietnam against the VC had actually been too successful. I'm not sure I understand how war diplomacy works, or why that would make sense but the authors presented it as the opinion of the North Vietnamese. Something to do with having something to negotiate with.

It seems to me that the coalition forces won the war fairly quickly. I can't imagine any future in which Saddam has a chance at returning to power. Still, I can't see how the situation in Iraq is "excellent". The U.S. needs to withdraw as quickly as possible while maintaining enough forces to avoid a British-Zionist thing. Life for the Iraqis isn't great. And those of us with friends serving over there still have real concerns. I have several customers with sons with permanent injuries from the Iraqi war.

One would have to be nuts or a fan of fascism to say that it isn't "substantially better" than it was under Saddam, of course. And it's worthwhile to remember that the American actions in Vietnam actually did work. It indeed did keep the Russians and Chinese from spreading Leninism/Maoism more actively. Vietnam also showed that America was willing to fight for its allies, albeit not so well as to threaten their own feeling of security against us.

Sadly, the Democratic Party abandoned the develoment of any great ideas for vanities. I'd love to see the party of FDR offer some real alternatives, if only because multi-party systems are better than one-party ones. I can't think of a single current interesting Democratic ideal, and I'm pretty left of most folks who read you. Too bad an uneasy coalition of labor, blacks and latinos couldn't have beaten out rich liberal whites, gays and feminists in the Democratic leadership.

i was gonna tell y'all how i was [as in 'used to be'] a card-carryin' democrat who jumped the fence 'cause my party sold-me out for all these extreme liberal causes ... about how they abandonned my values [and theirs] for the sake of so many constituencies that they claimed were the down-trodden of society ... about how they desanctified life itself and have tried to make me and my ilk look like we're the monsters. i was gonna do that ... but then i decided i just would tell you that i now vote primarily conservative and republican [altho i can get off on a few of the idiots on this side of the fence, too] - i fear my parents roll in their graves every time an election comes around and they see their offspring consorting with the vile elephantine enemy ... but i can sleep at night knowing that my values still matter ... that life is inviolable and that we are responsible for our actions and decisions [i am not a victim] ... and that if i want something or need something, the government is not responsible to get it for me - i have to earn it myself.

anyways, since manasclerk brought up the topic, i have a modern day vietnam era story to tell. i have an identical twin brother. our birthday is in november. we live 500 miles apart and don't see each other too often. last month i went to visit him in memphis tn so we could go out together and celebrate our birthday. our party of two [he and me] grew ... ended up being 8. among the number was a young woman [translated: under 50] ... she was the adult daughter of another older woman in the group. her mother invited her along so she could meet the 'twins' ... because this young woman was also an identical twin and her mother thought it would be fun. overall, the going out to celebrate didn't turn out badly... but ... i noticed my brother wasn't treating or engaging this young lady especially kindly [not his usual style of behavior - he usually falls all over attractive younger women] ... as we left the resturaunt and were departing, my bother's wife asked him what he thought of this identical twin lady [i think she also noticed that he was a little cool towards her] ... he said something like "well, she had two strikes against her before we even really got started: first, she's doing a man's job [she is a sub-contractor in the residential housing construction field ... i found that quite interesting], and secondly, she looks like that Jane Fonda bi... and I had enough of her while I was in Vietnam!"

amazing how feelings hang on for so long.

Uncle Jim, that story had me cackling out loud.

Manasclerk, you are spot-on with your observation about the strength of a multi-party system. A strong Democratic party that actively engages mainstream America makes for a better Republican party. Sadly, the hardline-leftist line Dean & Co. has them taking today makes a mediocre Republican look like a model citizen. Furthermore, there are plenty of Republicans who for some reason I don't understand, feel that the Dem's suicidal rush to the left forces them to swing left into the mushy center.

I too feel badly for labor, Hispanics and especially African-Americans. I sincerely hope that if they continue to hold fast to the Democratic party, that the party will molt out of its greasy special interests skin, and regenerate somewhere closer to body of issues for which they have more classically stood. In the meantime, charter schools, anyone?

the unfortunate thing about dean's statement is...
it's true.

go ahead and name a single insurgency in iraq or the place that was iraq before iraq was iraq that failed.
in fact.
name an insurgency ANYWHERE where the occupying force won.
go ahead.
you have ten seconds....

yeah.
no good.
you lose.

Ekul:

How about two. Germany and Japan. Both are democracies today. One used to be fascist, the other used to worship their emperor.

Now what am I going to do with these other 5 seconds?

unfortunately...there were NO insurgencies in those countries.
there were no "werewolves" in germany...not a single rebellious strike.
there was no uprising in japan...if there had been we would have had to commit genocide...
so..
you should probably do some research that isn't on a talking points memo from the white house about rebellions in germany and japan and use those other five seconds to answer the question.
heh!:)

oh yes. and i just noticed the line about sanity.
sane is not EVER dealing with ahmed chalabi. sane is knowing the damage you have caused to the civilian populous. sane is actually supporting your men and women in uniform...not just acting like you do. honesty is sane.
and i'm a conservative...believe it or not.

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